The accused told a staff member at Kahungunu Whānau Services that he had stood outside and watched the fire burn. Photo: Supplied / Axel Dann
A church pastor says the Loafers Lodge murder-accused told him he had to run for his life as the Wellington boarding hostel went up in flames.
The 50-year-old defendant, whose identity is suppressed, has denied murdering five people by setting the building alight on 16 May, 2023.
The High Court in Wellington has heard from multiple witnesses who supported the defendant in the days either side of the fire, and said he seemed calm after the blaze.
One of them was a pastor at a church the defendant was part of. RNZ has chosen not to identify the pastor or the church.
The pastor said about a week before the fire the defendant had visited the church seeking accommodation because he was unhappy where he was staying in Newtown.
"He talked about not being happy with some of the people that he was living with ... sounded like an unpleasant place to be."
The pastor explained the church could not help with accommodation, and repeated that when the defendant revisited the church a few days later.
When the pastor heard about the fire at Loafers Lodge, he texted the defendant to check he was okay, remembering he was staying somewhere in Newtown.
The defendant called back, and the pastor said he asked the defendant if he had to escape the fire.
"I remember his answer felt kind of halting, and then he said, 'yes, yes I was there'," the pastor said.
"He said 'yes, yes I had to run for my life'."
The defendant was calm and his tone did not match the urgency of what he would expect from someone who had escaped a "major disaster", the pastor said.
The phone call lasted just over two minutes.
The court also heard from staff at Kahungunu Whānau Services, who helped the defendant before and after the fire.
Cheyenne Allen said she met the defendant for the first time on 12 May, and she was trying to help him find accommodation, although he was currently staying at Loafers Lodge.
She too called the defendant when she heard about the fire on 16 May.
"I said 'I know that there's been a fire at Loafers Lodge' ... and I just said 'do you need support?'.
"It went quiet for a little bit, like maybe 20 seconds," she said.
She told him she was worried about him, and to come in if he needed anything.
He did the following day, and Allen asked him directly about the fire.
"He said to me that yes he saw the fire, he was standing outside watching the fire burn.
"I then asked him if he slept on the streets and he said yes."
The defendant did not seem concerned, she said.
"He just didn't seem like someone that had just gone through a big ordeal like that."
Allen later helped him into different accommodation, and helped him purchase groceries and clothing.
Under cross-examination, she told defence lawyer Steve Gill most of his answers in their interactions were monosyllabic.
She said at one point she asked the defendant if he needed to see a doctor, because she had a feeling he may have mental health problems, but he said he had never been to a doctor.
Defence lawyer Steve Gill. Photo: RNZ / Mark Papalii
Loafers Lodge 'a hellhole' - social service worker
The Crown says the defendant lit the fire because he did not like living there, and knew that people could die as a result.
The defence intends to argue he was insane at the time.
Multiple witnesses from social services who had tried to help the defendant told the court he did not like Loafers Lodge.
Krystallyn Aramoana, who also worked at Kahungunu Whānau Services, said she supported many whānau who lived at Loafers Lodge, including the defendant, and had visited herself.
"It was a hellhole," she said.
Aramoana said the lodge had a "stink".
She recalled the shared bathrooms smelling like urine and faeces, messy rooms with no sheets on some beds, and clients reporting bed bugs.
"A lot of the whānau who end up coming to our services to enrol, want to get out of there," she said.
Earlier on Tuesday the court heard from the defendant's sister and cousin who detailed his mental state.
The trial continues.
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