Nine To Noon for Monday 14 March 2011
09:05 Japan nuclear threat following 8.9 quake
Professor Paddy Regan, Professor of Nuclear Physics at the University of Surrey.
09:30 Latest on Japan
Mark Willacy, ABC correspondent in Tokyo.
09:30 Sendai region, devastated by the tsunami
Alfred Weinzierl, interpreter in Sendai, working with aid agencies and journalists covering the disaster.
09:35 Government's healthy food guidelines - nutritious food too expensive for struggling families
Innis Asher, a lead researcher in the study at Auckland University School of Medicine.
09:45 Middle East correspondent Irris Makler
10:05 Jeremy Borland - Sign language interpreter
Jeremy's Facebook fan page. (See transcript below)
10:30 Book Review with Mary McCallum
The Summer Without Men by Siri Hustvedt
Published by Sceptre
10:45 Reading:Hello Dubai, written & read by Joe Bennett (Part 6 of 10)
Joe Bennett tries out a shopping mall with a ski field.
11:05 Political commentators Matthew Hooton and Sue Bradford
11:30 Guest chef Catherine Bell and wine commentator John Hawkesby
Raw Zucchini Salad with Olive Dressing
Zucchini, Fig and Almond Loaf
11:45 Urbanist Tommy Honey discusses 3D printing, entrepreneurs and organs
A Factory on your desk: The Economist
Kickstarting an idea: The Economist
Making a bit of me, printing organs: The Economist
Transcript: Feature Guest - Jeremy Borland
This transcript is Copyright, 2011, Radio New Zealand.
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Kathryn: Well, Jeremy Borland has become something of a minor celebrity over the past few weeks, with his face being beamed into the country's living rooms, on a daily basis. He's the guy you've seen standing next to the Christchurch mayor and representatives from Civil Defence and Emergency Services, translating their media conferences into sign language.More than 10 percent of the population has some form of hearing disability, and about 24,000 people use New Zealand sign language. Despite this, there was something of a battle involved in having a sign language interpreter introduced to the Civil Defence media conferences, that were broadcast twice daily during the crisis, carrying vital information and updates to Canterbury people and indeed beyond.
Well, Jeremy Borland's appearances on our screens have won him legions of fans. His Facebook page today has 25,152 fans. Bob Parker dubbed him "Hot Jeremy." He's taken the adulation all in stride though. He has to really, as it's fair to say, he's got a bit going on at the moment. Jeremy's own home is not far from the central city coordinate in Christchurch. There's some liquefaction where he is, but his house is still standing strong, and his family's OK. He's been hosting another family, whose house was destroyed in the earthquake.
Well, I spoke to Jeremy a little earlier and began by asking him how he came to learn sign language.
Jeremy Borland: I've got a deaf sister, she's the middle of five of us, in the family, and just after she was diagnosed as deaf, our whole family learnt sign language. And so, we've been using it with her right through, and right until now, whenever we get together as a family, we use sign language so that she can communicate with us.
Kathryn: So, it's always been a part of her life, right? It was her first language, and right from childhood, that was the norm.
Jeremy: Exactly, yeah, yeah. Looking back, you can't really remember a time without sign language for me. I mean, I was six when I learnt it. But, yeah, it's always been a part of my life, and yeah, like you say my sister's first language.
Kathryn: We know that children have a tremendous capacity for learning multiple languages, but how do you teach a child sign?
Jeremy: Well, pretty much what we did was just, we learnt all the very basic signs and a lot of signs linked to a number of picture books that we had. And we'd just read those books, or just use basic sign language around her, as a family, so that she could sort of pick it up, as an entered into language. I supposed, similar to using spoken language around a normal hearing child.
Kathryn: So when it became time for you to become an official interpreter, was this a whole new level of skill, and language acquisition, that you had to go through?
Jeremy: It was, yes. So, I went up to Auckland, to AUT for the two year diploma there in interpreting. And I went in pretty cocky actually thinking I knew everything there was to know about sign language. But, yeah, there's just so much more that needed brushing up. So, all the high level technical terms in sign language, and then of course, the actual technicalities of interpreting, and the linguistics, and ethics of interpreting, and everything as well.
Kathryn: Was it a major decision for you to choose this, what was to become you career? Was there any particular reason that you did it? Had you become so immersed and interested in it, that it seemed like an interesting thing to do?
Jeremy: Well, actually, my initial aim was to become an accountant. And after school, I was going to head off to Canterbury Uni and do that. But, ended up deciding to have a year off, and just do any sort of mundane work, just for a year, just to, sort of, reassess where I was at, and have a bit of a break from study.My sister needed an interpreter or someone to sign for her in her third form year at school. So, I put my hand up and thought well that'll get a bit of money in, and be that work, that sort of gap year for me. And ended up loving it and so yeah, it completely changed my career direction.
Kathryn: Loving it, rescued you from accountancy.
Jeremy: That's right, yeah.
Kathryn: So the training as we said, you entered, having used the language socially, and probably very fluently. What's the challenge when they start teaching you or training you to use it, in a whole variety of settings?
Jeremy: I think that, yeah, the challenge is firstly, just becoming OK with all the settings of where you will be asked to use sign language, as an interpreter. So, in the legal settings, the medical settings, in universities and all of that. So, it's not only coming up to scratch with the sign language vocab, but also, the English jargon and vocab that's used in those areas.And then, I suppose, the second area is being able to use it at a very fast paced level as well. As opposed to just socially, where it's comes out as fast as you want it to, you, as an interpreter, you have to keep up with the person who is speaking.
Kathryn: How does the language work? Does it mimic English, with a full vocabulary, or does it have signs to represent whole phrases or concepts? What are the mechanics of it?
Jeremy: Well, I mean, it is a language in itself, with its own grammar structure, which is very separate to English. And so, as an interpreter, you are taking one structure, so a concept and one structure of a language, and then transferring it into a completely new structure.And in terms of the actual vocab, there is sometimes for some concepts in English, there may be a much more succinct way of producing that in sign language. Because of the 3D nature of sign language, where you can use space in front of you, and the visual aspects, and your facial expression, all to, to sort of, convey one concept, that then...
Kathryn: Sort of like a short-form almost, or...
Jeremy: Yeah, I suppose so. It's not a summarized version. You're still getting just as much detail, and it's just as rich. It's just, yeah, as you say, it can come out in a much more succinct way sometimes, in sign language.
Kathryn: What's different about the structure? If you think of, I don't know, a language like German, where they always track the second verb off to the end of the sentence, or something like that? Is it that kind of rearrangement we're talking about? And why does it rearrange the language?
Jeremy: Yeah, it is a similar thing like that. And I'm terrible, I mean, being an interpreter, you should know the structure, off the top of your head, and I don't. It sort of just comes out naturally.I know that the basic idea is that, you always set up the time first, so whereabouts you are in time, whether it was yesterday, last week, or today. And then you move into the setting of where it is. And so, you're going from the big picture, right down to the details, is your general structure. And also, quite often, the topic of any sentence is often just stated at the start of a sentence, and then after that, the details are added in at a later stage.
Kathryn: Fascinating. It's even more interesting actually because watching you the signs seem to logically, and quite fully follow the English speech you're interpreting. But from what you were saying, you've got to take in an entire sentence at least, before you're interpreting it. But really, a very short delay it seems, just watching it.
Jeremy: That's right and I think that sometimes, speed will dictate how thoroughly you're able to translate into a purely New Zealand sign language structure. Sometimes if it is going very fast, and there is a lot of technical details, then a lot of, sort of, English influence does comes into your interpretation.And so, for a deaf person, they would probably still understand it, but it might not be in as natural, and pure a form, as would be most comfortable, so, yeah. So, quite often, if you're fairly close behind the speaker, then there is quite a lot of English influence on the interpretation.
Kathryn: And so does it mean that sign has its own vocabulary, in some ways, that doesn't really have a match in English, or in French, or any other language?
Jeremy: Yes, there are a number of signs where it's just one single sign, and to try to get an equivalent, if you're voicing that over into English, is quite tough sometimes. And so, it might be just one simple sign with a little facial expression, and it could take you 10 or 15 English words, just to even get close to trying to give an accurate interpretation.
Kathryn: Is it particularly the case with emotions and expressing emotions?
Jeremy: I think that emotions and expressing emotions, that's quite a common thing, that is, sort of, used socially and everything, anyway. So, that's not so difficult, so much. It's more just... I'm trying to think how you'd explain it. It's kind of like a sign language slang I suppose, where there are certain...
Kathryn: That makes sense.
Jeremy: ...yeah, certain signs which you, yeah, you need to be very strongly part of a deaf community, and understand what they mean in context, to be able to extrapolate what is actually being meant.
Kathryn: Are there any new words you've had to learn, in the earthquake situation? There's a lot of new words that all of us have had to learn, whatever language we speak, regrettably, but are there some that you've had to create?
Jeremy: Yes there are, and with the September four earthquake, that has meant that earthquake related jargon, and everything, has been used quite prevalently, through the Christchurch community, and throughout the whole of New Zealand, of course. And the deaf community have also been using that, and so a lot of signs have been developed among the deaf community themselves.And so, as interpreters, we're able to pick up what has been developed, by deaf people themselves, which is always the ideal. Because they're the ones that use the language, all day, everyday, and it's their natural language, and so, yeah.
And one sign, just off the top of my head, is the liquefaction sign, which people have been using since September four. It shows the sand, sort of, erupting up out of the ground, and all over the road, or the section, or wherever it is. And so that's, yeah, a visual representation of what it looks like, has become a relatively standard sign for liquefaction now.
Kathryn: And regrettably, port-a-loo is another one that's very much on people's minds, given the shortage of them, already an existing word for something like that though, I presume?
Jeremy: Exactly, yes, yeah, with any sort of festivals, or concerts, or anything, port-a-loo's are quite often quite prominent in those places as well. And so, yeah, you're right, there is already an accepted way of expressing those sorts of concepts.
Kathryn: Speaking of slang, munted is a word that many Christchurch people are using, on a scale almost, to describe the damage to their property. Again, I presume, any sort of informal word that a community develops, becomes part of sign.
Jeremy: Yeah, that was something that did, sort of, take me by surprise. It was just thrown out there, and I wasn't prepared for it. But, an English word like that, like munted, normally, the concept is what's aimed for. And so, the concept that I went for, when that came up, was for, "badly damaged." But, doing it in a more informal sort of way, with an informal facial expression, and then the word, "munted," on my lips as well. So that, yeah, as much of that concept can get across as possible.
Kathryn: That combining of lip reading and sign, is that very common, is it, in fact, the norm, in many ways? In the way that people will learn and combine both forms of communication?
Jeremy: Yeah, I think it is. It only links in, the lip patterns will only actually link into sign language for vocab items. And if you're trying to add all the filler words like, "as," and, "so," and "the," and all of those, then they don't have a place in New Zealand Sign Language. So, it's normally just to clarify a specific vocab item. Except in saying that, quite a lot of deaf people will not use any lip patterns at all, and it is all just facial expression and sign language, and still the concept can be gotten across relatively easily.
Kathryn: So, it's verbs and nouns are the most common, what we would recognize as English speakers, as the most common focus in sign, not the little words.
Jeremy: That's right, yes. And predominantly the nouns, and a lot of the verbs are incorporated into the 3D space. And I'm trying to think of a good way to explain that over the radio. But, if you were saying, "You were going to the shop," you would have a 3D representation of someone going to the shop. So, it would all be done in space, in front of you, and so the actual verb would never have to be actually, explicitly be mentioned, just because it's all incorporated in that sign.
Kathryn: You've been working as an interpreter with the Civil Defence, and the media conference. We've all been watching on television, very hard for you, and your sign language colleague. Two conferences a day, over two weeks plus now, and communicating very hard, and very sad information. Has it taken a toll, and really effected you, even more perhaps, than you might have expected?
Jeremy: Yeah, well, I think so. I think that when we're both actually on and interpreting, we are able to flick into a professional mode. It's almost like just work mode, where we've got information coming in and we have to translate that and put it out, and are able to maintain quite a lot of objectivity, I suppose, and the emotions are able to sort of be put on hold for a little bit. But then, afterwards, I think, reviewing what has been said and the actual weight of what has been said can hurt and have a bit of an impact.Yeah. I think, also, cumulatively as well, over the time as well, yeah, the emotional impact has taken a little bit of a toll. Yeah.
Kathryn: How have you dealt with it?
Jeremy: Well, I really enjoy going for runs. That helps a lot, I think, just pushing your body beyond the level where it feels comfortable and just pushing through, and that seems to be a real good outlet. Yeah. And also, there's been no shortage of stuff to keep you busy at the moment, with people needing to move out of their houses and chimneys down and neighbors, and being able to help out with all that. And so I suppose, yeah, keeping busy and physical activity is a real good way for me to be able to deal with that sort of thing.
Kathryn: As a stress release. Much harder than people might realize to hear and to convey this information day after day. As you say, the emotions in this will happen, also, for the people who are the first communicators of it. The emotions really do tote up.What was involved in heading the sign-language interpreters as part of the Civil Defence media conferences? It wasn't an automatic process, was it?
Jeremy: No, it wasn't. And it did take quite a bit of work behind the scenes. I know that Deaf Aotearoa New Zealand, they were sort of leading the charge on that, really pushing to have interpreters at those media conferences. And then, from that, there were a number of other individuals in government departments. I know the Ministry of Education got on board as well. And they've done a fabulous job in getting the government to accept having interpreters on the media conferences, which is really good.
Kathryn: Sounds like it was quite a battle, though, Jeremy.
Jeremy: Actually, I don't have any knowledge of that firsthand. I've only heard about that afterwards. Yeah, so I'm not sure how much of a battle it really was, in the end. But I do know that Deaf Aotearoa did mention that they had to get to the level of getting to the prime minister's office, and it had to be a directive from him to have this service available to the deaf community.
Kathryn: Given the number of hearing-impaired in any community, let alone in a Civil Defence crisis, one would have thought it would have been automatic.
Jeremy: Yeah. And I think that that's what a number of people are saying, both members of the deaf community, but also a number of just the general population in New Zealand, really are quite amazed that it wasn't provided right at the start of the media briefings, and also that it isn't just a given. So I'm really hoping that what's happened this time around. And also, I think that there has been quite a high profile for the interpreting and the sign language on TV and everything, and so I'm hoping that from this, that it can become a bit more of a normal, everyday thing and a consideration that everyone will have in the future for any situation like this.
Kathryn: I'm speaking with Jeremy Borland. He's the sign-language interpreter who has been beamed into everyone's homes during the media conferences, along with his colleague over the past two and a half weeks now, nearly three weeks now, since the earthquake struck in Christchurch. You're listening to Radio New Zealand National.Well, you became "Hot Jeremy," courtesy of the mayor. You ended up with your own Facebook fan club. And at first, Jeremy, I don't think you were that thrilled about it.
Jeremy: No, that's right. And I'm not really much of a Facebook fan at all, myself. The extent of my Facebook usage has been having people ask me to be their friend and I accept. And then my two sisters are the only two, they do a poke thing, and then I'm supposed to poke back, and I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of that is.
Kathryn: [laughs]
Jeremy: Yeah. And apart from that, there's all that CityVille things and Mafia Wars and garden games and all that sort of stuff, which I get requests for, and I don't really know what they're for so I ignore the whole lot. Yeah.So, with this big Facebook thing, the fan page, with the likes and all of that, I was actually a bit worried about it and thinking, "Oh, no, it's going to be this ridiculous, frivolous thing in the midst of this horrendous disaster." So I reported the page to Facebook administration, and I got my sister in Sydney to try to get the person who started it to shut it down and everything. Yeah. But then it just kept growing, and our attempt didn't work, to get it shut down.
But I think that the way it's developed, and I really do take my hat off to the person who set up the page and has administrated it, because she has really been very respectful of me and my privacy, and she's ensured that it remains a respectful site and that it hasn't descended into frivolity and that it has been able to be a vehicle for promoting New Zealand sign language and interpreters in New Zealand.
Kathryn: Tens of thousands of fans you have on Facebook. Do you know why you've become such a hit?
Jeremy: Well, I think there's probably two reasons, really. I think the first reason is that it is such a novelty to have New Zealand sign language and interpreting on TV. And part of that is it's sad that it is such a novelty, because it'd be nice if it was just there as a matter of course. So I think that the novelty factor has meant that it's been quite popular.The second thing is that New Zealand sign language is a very animated language and, visually, quite pleasing, I think, to watch, with the facial expression and the 3D nature, where you can sort of match in and compare what the speaker's saying to what the interpreter is signing. And so I think, for the general population, it's been, yeah, extremely interesting from that perspective.
Kathryn: It's perhaps made us think how dull, as communicators, we are, by and large, just sort of sitting there with words drooping out the sides of our lazy New Zealand mouths and lips.[laughter]
Kathryn: A bit of sort of Italian gesticulation would suit all of us, possibly, to liven things up a bit.When you say New Zealand sign language, it is an official language. Does it also mean that languages are different from country to country with sign?
Jeremy: It does, yes. Yeah. There is a few sort of families of sign language, I suppose you could call them. In Britain, Australia, and New Zealand, there is sort of a similar base or foundation to the language, and so, speaking with someone from those countries, you can understand each other fairly well. But then, if you go anywhere in Asia, they've all got their own sign languages; right through Europe, they've all got their own sign languages; America is completely different, again.Yeah. So, to be able to work as an interpreter in countries like that, or to be able to have a good, in-depth conversation, you would have to brush up on each individual sign language beforehand.
Kathryn: It became an official language in 2006, and how has that affected work that you and others do?
Jeremy: The initial strength in that, the New Zealand Sign Language Act, has been in the legal arena. And so any legal proceedings have to have a sign-language interpreter involved if one of the participants is using New Zealand sign language as their preferred and first language. And so, from that perspective, yeah, it just means that every time there's a deaf person involved in any sort of legal proceedings that an interpreter's provided. And so that's been a good thing for the deaf community, and a good thing for interpreters as well, I suppose, in terms of getting more work out of it.And then there's also a roll-out for the rest of the New Zealand Sign Language Act, which is supposed to end up being compulsory in employment, education, and in health as well. And so that is something that is still to happen.
Kathryn: And that means, obviously, all these areas, court, hospital, police, universities, schools, businesses, all can use your services. Does it mean that there's necessarily a full-time career for people like you, however?
Jeremy: Definitely, yeah. That's the main thing that I do. That's what I do for a full-time job, just a freelance interpreter around Christchurch, mostly.
Kathryn: But enough work to make it a full-time job?
Jeremy: There is, yes. Yeah. I'm pretty sure, currently, there's seven of us here in Christchurch. And right throughout the country, there's about 70 to 80 interpreters who all do that, most of them, as their primary job. And yeah, there's a number of interpreters that that's their full-time job, and they make a living. Yeah.And so we're just hoping that as things progress, with the Sign Language Act and everything, there'll be more jobs available for interpreters, and that there'll be more interpreters coming through the ranks as well, getting trained, and so that the profession can be developed.
Kathryn: This has been an exceptional time, the country's worst natural disaster for 80 years, at least, and so very heavy demand for you, given, as we see it, the proportion of any general community who are hearing-impaired and are in need of urgent information at this time. It's going to continue, though, Jeremy.It's going to be a long process of rebuilding and lots and lots of need for people to have information or to be able to communicate with authorities. Is there a big demand that's going to have to be met, and perhaps others who are going to have to come in and supplement you and your colleague we've come to know so well, over the coming months?
Jeremy: Yeah. Well, I think that potentially there will be quite an increase in demand for interpreters. I mean, so far, it has been relatively quiet, apart from the media side of things, just because a lot of the work is in the Central City, and all of that has been not happening, of course. But there is such a flow-on effect in terms of the social wellbeing of deaf people, and there'll be insurance and EQC matters that need to have interpreters involved, and that sort of thing will have a flow-on effect for a number of years. Yeah.But luckily, we do have quite a close-knit profession in the interpreting field, and we've already had a number of people put their hands up and say that they're happy to come down and give us a hand if it does become unmanageable for us.
Kathryn: You've been working almost right from the start. And, like everyone who has been involved in providing critical services in this emergency, you've been through your own experience and your own loss, of whatever personal scale. Have you had time to stop and reflect on how this earthquake has affected and has changed your life, as it has pretty much everyone in Christchurch?
Jeremy: Yeah. I think that, I don't know, even if I'd had enough time to maybe go away for a week and reflect... I don't know. It still feels completely surreal, and it just doesn't feel like it has happened.I remember the day of the earthquake, I was in a cafe right in the Central City, which started to collapse on one side and everything. And when we got out of the cafe and just onto the street, it was like we'd walked out into a movie scene or some sort of foreign news broadcast. It's the sort of stuff you only ever see on your TV, really.
Yeah, it still hasn't hit properly in terms of it feeling real, and so I think it's difficult to come to terms with something that hasn't really hit yet. And so I suppose it's the kind of thing that over the coming weeks and months will probably just, slowly but surely, the reality will hit, and the extent of how it has affected me and the rest of the people who experienced the earthquake will actually come about.
Kathryn: That's Jeremy Borland, "Hot Jeremy," as the mayor dubbed him, and earned himself some unwelcome fame and a large following of supporters, through his role as one of the two sign-language interpreters in the Civil Defence media conferences from the Christchurch earthquake.He's now realizing that the amount of exposure he's had, including his 25,000 fans on Facebook, can be used to raise the profile of New Zealand sign, used by some 24,000 New Zealanders. And a bit of a battle, it sounds like, to get it used in the Civil Defence emergency broadcasts in the first place. It might be the last time, perhaps, that there's a battle over the edge.
