10 Sep 2018

How to shout at MPs on TV: the rules of political scrums

From The House , 9:00 am on 10 September 2018

When a rugby game is going badly, fans often shout at the ref through the TV, despite most of us not knowing the rules well enough to second guess the on-field calls. Referees, of course, appreciate the help.

When it’s about scrums, only foolhardy commentators claim certainty of either rules or reality. When the scrum is Parliament even fewer know the rules, including the players. And it’s traditional to feign ignorance, plead innocence, or blame the ref when things go badly.  

Shouting through the TV or radio is a national sport, so to help your participation here’s a bluffer’s guide to some of the ‘House rules’.  

For extra points identify where the quotes in the headings are from. (Answers at the end.)

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Photo: ABC

Rule 1. “Who is this God person anyway?”  

The Speaker is god. That’s not what the rules say, but you get the idea. MPs elect one of their number to be the boss of them, with enormous delegated power.

The role gives Parliament a figurehead, (Parliaments developed in a monarchy), and a spokesperson; including to the monarch (hence the name).

Mainly though, they’re tasked with maintaining “order and decorum in the House” (84:1), so Parliament runs effectively.  As Poto Williams (Assistant Speaker) said; “disorder is our enemy”.

The MPs’ own rules demand they respect the position. MPs stand when the Speaker comes or goes (87).  They also have to acknowledge the “Chair” when entering or leaving the chamber (85), much like Catholics entering a church.

Maybe this near-divinity is why Parliament’s rules (Standing Orders) are notated by chapter and verse. For geeks, we’ll note the relevant rules as we go.

MPs generally acknowledge the chair with a nod, bow or even a curtsy. If you watch carefully you might sometimes notice an MP do so with what appears to be sarcastic deference after a stoush with the chair.

Speaker Trevor Mallard on his feet in the chamber, while Ron Mark and Tracy Martin listen to his ruling.

Speaker Trevor Mallard on his feet in the chamber, while Ron Mark and Tracy Martin listen to his ruling. Photo: VNP / Phil Smith

Rule 2. “I’m standing here, you make the move.”     

“Whenever the Speaker rises during a sitting, members must sit down and be silent.” (84:2).

This riled the current Speaker frequently in the early weeks of Parliament, during the traditional ‘test the new Speaker’ phase. Opposition MPs were told off for talking back and even braying (yes, apparently braying) while the Speaker was on his feet and trying to make a ruling.

Sometimes it appears that MPs actively work to get kicked out of the House. Only they could say for sure whether, or why, they do. But breaking this rule is a handy path to a red card.

It’s like throwing a dart at a teacher while they tell you off. You’re getting sent to the principal’s office. The trick is not going ‘too far’.

Rule 3. "What we've got here is failure to communicate."

Unlike on the sports field, MPs are allowed to complain to the ref. It’s practically encouraged.

It’s called making a ‘point of order’. You just stand up at any point and shout ‘point of order’. Points of order can interrupt pretty much anything (except a vote) to niggle, complain or litigate the action. If rugby was like this the ball would never get put into the scrum.

But here’s the thing that MPs often get wrong - the only person who is allowed to interrupt a point of order is the Speaker. Points of order are meant to be heard in silence (88:2).

Once an MP raises a point of order, it takes precedence over everything else until it’s resolved (88:1). But the Speaker alone resolves it and there is no debate of the pros and cons of it unless the Speaker allows it (88:2).

Speaker Trevor Mallard and Clerk David Wilson listening carefully in the chamber.

Speaker Trevor Mallard and Clerk David Wilson listening carefully in the chamber. Photo: VNP / Phil Smith

Rule 4a. “You talkin’ to me?”            

It often seems that MPs are shouting at each other in Parliament. They’re not. They’re shouting at the Speaker.

Their shouts are about each other, but all directed at the Speaker. Everything said in the chamber is said to the Speaker (107).

Yes, the job is badly named - they should be called The Listener.

Maybe insulting people through an intermediary was a means to preventing duels in the earliest British Parliaments. Maybe they were just passive aggressive.

Rule 4b. “You must be talking to me”

In the chamber, the words ‘you’ or ‘your’ refer to the Speaker. (107)  

This is MPs most common mistake.  “You should”, they cry, “when you said”, “what were you thinking”, “you’re wrong”....

Sometimes MPs do it many, many times in a single speech, despite multiple corrections until the Speaker gives up and the other MPs laugh.

The refrain from frustrated Speakers is “please don’t bring me into the debate”. Which translates loosely as: “Stop saying ‘you’, you muppet, if you’re talking about your opponents say ‘they’.

Rule 4c. “You talking to me? Well, I’m the only one here.”        

Nothing that is said in the Chamber is private. Everything said is said to the Speaker, and it doesn’t matter whether it was intended that way.

A regular excuse MPs give when they’re overheard making a rude comment (see rule 5) is “but, I was only talking to my neighbour”. That is not a thing.

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Photo: VNP / Daniela Maoate-Cox

Rule 5. “Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?”        

Despite appearances, MPs cannot say something offensive about other MPs (120). It’s called unparliamentary language.

If anything offensive or disorderly is said, the Speaker is meant to intervene (119).

So, it’s not because the Speaker feels like it, or dislikes the offender, or is protecting the target. The rules require an intervention.

Rule 6. “I'm sixteen years old and I don't need a governess.”    

MPs only get to speak when the Speaker calls on them (105), but are allowed to interrupt to raise a point of order or seek a call (ask to speak).

It may surprise you, but strictly speaking, interjections are not allowed. They’re certainly not a right.

According to Speakers Rulings (58:1) “a member is entitled to be heard without interruption, but with the tacit consent of the House the rule has been relaxed in favour of members asking reasonable questions.” That was Speaker Statham, way back in 1932.

It’s not just antique politesse. In 2007 Robertson ruled that “the practice of members engaging in a constant barrage of interjections amounts to heckling; it is entirely intolerable in a debating chamber (59:3).”

Speaker Trevor Mallard on his feet in the chamber

Speaker Trevor Mallard on his feet in the chamber Photo: VNP / Phil Smith

Rule 7. “Go ahead, make my day.”                

The Speaker has a lot of power to maintain “order and decorum in the House” (84:1).

You may have noticed he can start and stop inquiries. The Speaker can even suspend a sitting, or adjourn Parliament if they think it’s necessary (50). That’s the ref saying “it’s my ball and I’m taking it home”.

They alone interpret the rules, using previous Speakers’ rulings as a guide (2). It’s a lot like a court of law in that way, one judge’s decision influences the interpretation of the next judge.

In Parliament, the more significant rulings of Speakers are collected together for easy reference and referred to as Speaker’s Rulings.

In practice, a Speaker (especially a less experienced assistant Speaker), will often take advice from the Clerk at the Table before making a ruling. There are a lot of rules and even more Speakers' rulings to keep in mind.

Standing Orders and Speakers' Rulings come in handy ring bound books which you see MPs quickly checking in the House during arguments over rules.

Standing Orders and Speakers' Rulings come in handy ring bound books which you see MPs quickly checking in the House during arguments over rules. Photo: VNP / Phil Smith

Rule 8. “Judge, jury, and executioner.”        

MPs can get kicked out for the day for being “highly disorderly” (89:1), but their vote still counts. So far this Parliament Paula Bennett is the only MP to have been turfed.

But that punishment is just a warm-up.

An MP who is “grossly disorderly” (90-91) may be “named” as such by the Speaker. (Note: before MMP MPs' names were never used in the chamber, just their electorate).

Once an MP is ‘named’, the house votes on whether they agree. If they do, the MP is suspended for 24 hours. The punishment escalates for successive suspensions (7 days, 28 days).

Suspended MPs can’t enter the chamber, serve on a committee, lodge questions, speak, or vote. Removing a vote could topple a government. And for the kicker - their pay is docked.  That’s a punishment.

This is what David Bennett was threatened with when he ignored the Speaker’s demand to “Withdraw and Apologise” for unparliamentary language in early 2018.

Even with this threat hanging over him he took a long time to comply. He may have been shell-shocked or confused about the unusual punishment.

Considering the next bit, he might count himself lucky. An MP who refuses to leave the House when suspended is automatically suspended for the rest of the year (94).

That’s probably enough to go on with. Armchair speakers, start your tonsils.



Answers to the quotes quiz:

Rule 1. “Who is this God person anyway?” From The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. (The third of Oolon Colluphid’s trilogy of philosophical blockbusters ‘Where God Went Wrong’, ‘Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes’ and ‘Who is this God Person Anyway?’)

Rule 2. “I’m standing here, you make the move” Taxi Driver. Robert de Niro improvising script as Travis Bickle calling out Travis Bickle in the mirror. It’s possible this is how MPs practice for Oral Questions.

Rule 3. “What we've got here is failure to communicate.” Cool Hand Luke. Strother Martin as prison guard, Captain, having just beaten up Paul Newman.

Rule 4a, 4b, 4c “You talkin’ to me? You must be talking to me. You talking to me? Well, I’m the only one here.”  Taxi Driver again. Same scene as rule 2, continued.

Rule 5. “Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?” From Romeo & Juliet, by some rural English actor called Shakespeare. This is from the play’s first scene. You may remember the memorable petrol station scene in Baz Luhrmann’s movie. There are fewer pistols and swords in Parliament.

Rule 6.  “I'm sixteen years old and I don't need a governess.”  From The Sound of Music. Liesl introducing herself to Maria, the new governess. But similar to an MP and a new Speaker.

Rule 7. “Go ahead, make my day.” From Sudden Impact. Clint Eastwood as ‘Dirty’ Harry Callahan.

Rule 8. “Judge, Jury, and Executioner.”  You can take your pick, but points vary: If you said: Judge Dredd, the dystopian comic-book street judge. 1 point. If you said: Song title by Atoms for Peace. 2 points. If you said: A Study in Scarlet (Sherlock Holmes) by Arthur Conan Doyle. 5 points. If you said: Memoirs of the Church of Scotland by Daniel Defoe. 50 points to Gryffindor.