It's the oldest and largest art space of its kind in the world. That's the Creative Growth Art Centre in Oakland, near San Francisco. It was set up in the early seventies, in the belief that disabled people could also be artistic. No doubt a radical idea at the time. But does a Centre bringing together a hundred and fifty artists with a mix of developmental, physical and intellectual impairments sit comfortably alongside more contemporary notions of inclusion - of disabled artists working alongside their non-disabled peers? Well, here to talk about that and other issues is Creative Growth director Tom di Maria - thanks to Arts Access Aotearoa.