It was 2005 when one of New Zealand's most important artists, Ralph Hotere, asked his friend, the writer, poet and biographer Vincent O'Sullivan, to write his life story.
The friendship between the two went back to the 1960s when they were both students in London.
Hone Papita Raukura Hotere was born near Mitimiti in the far north in 1931, one of 15 children. He went on to become one of our best known modern painters with his signature minimal, black works.
Vincent O'Sullivan talks with Kathryn about the long awaited biography, just published, called The Dark Is Light Enough.