Media Releases

New Podcast: Witi Underwater

Released at 10:15 am on 12 June 2025

Award-winning podcasters Adam Dudding and Eugene Bingham follow legendary author Witi Ihimaera as he undertakes a year-long te reo Māori immersion course and reflects on a fascinating and complex life in Witi Underwater.

With a career that includes Whale Rider, Pounamu Pounamu, and stints as a diplomat and journalist, Ihimaera’s list of achievements is expansive. But at the age of 80, this son of Te Tai Rawhiti, who grew up in the village of Waituhi, felt a yearning to master something he had never done: learn te reo Māori. 

While many people assumed he could already speak it, Ihimaera had grown up without becoming fluent in his tūpuna reo, encouraged instead to pursue achievements in the Pākehā world. After wrestling with deeply personal challenges that had held him back for decades, he took the leap and enrolled for an infamously difficult year-long crash course, with full-immersion lessons conducted in Māori only.

Co-Producer Eugene Bingham says Witi Underwater is the story of what happens when one of Aotearoa’s taonga, Witi Ihimaera, is thrown in the deep end.

“And that’s how it felt for us as podcast makers, too. Heoi, nō māua te honore. Having the privilege to follow Papa Witi on his haerenga reo Māori came with a heavy responsibility, to sensitively convey this most personal of journeys.

“Just as there were wero for Papa Witi and his hoa akomanga, there were plenty for Adam and me. As students of te reo rangatira ourselves, operating in a rumaki reo environment meant we were pushed and challenged in ways we had never been before in our careers as story-tellers. Therefore, the mahi, manaaki, and āwhina of the project’s mātanga reo, Te Aomihia Tumai, was invaluable.”

Co-Producer Adam Dudding says Witi Underwater came about because of something Bingham said to him in passing, in late 2023.

“He’d heard through the grapevine that Witi Ihimaera had enrolled for the famously punishing full-immersion te reo Māori course at Te Wānanga Takiura. That was fascinating to me, because like many others, I’d assumed that as Aotearoa’s most famous Māori writer, Witi would no doubt be a fluent speaker of te reo. 

“I already knew Witi through family connections, so I gave him a call to ask about why he was doing the course – but also to see if he would mind having me and Eugene shadow him throughout the nine-month course. Amazingly, he agreed, so that’s what happened.”

Witi Underwater follows Ihimaera and his classmates through their year-long immersion journey, and along the way the producers also learn about the revitalisation of te reo Māori, the challenges it is enduring, and the complex and personal challenges facing te reo Māori learners. Patua te taniwha! Karawhiua! 

The podcast weaves English and te reo Māori in a way that many New Zealanders will be familiar with, allowing the audience to experience the challenges and the inspiration of being in an immersion environment. 

A year on in this journey, Ihimaera says “You know what? I’m still swimming underwater! But, aha, I am developing gills to breathe! Learning te reo continues, ka haere tonu au.”

Made by Te Pūrongo Productions with the support of Te Māngai Pāho, Witi Underwater will launch on 16 June at rnz.co.nz/podcasts and on podcast platforms and will be broadcast on RNZ National and .Made by Te Pūrongo Productions with the support of Te Māngai Pāho, Witi Underwater will launch on 16 June at rnz.co.nz/podcasts and on podcast platforms and will be broadcast on RNZ National and Iwi Radio.

Music for the podcast was written and performed by musician and audio engineer James Dansey. Selected tracks will be on streaming platforms including the waiata Hoea. As a musician, Dansey has performed with The Sneaks and Spring Break, and has composed for feature films Gary of the Pacific and Timeslow. Hoea is his first waiata reo Māori.

Biographies

Witi Ihimaera (Te Aitanga-a-Māhaki)

Witi Ihimaera is one of New Zealand’s most accomplished writers. His first novel, Tangi, won the Wattie Book of the Year Award in 1974. He won the same award again in 1986 with The Matriarch. In 1995 his novel Bulibasha, King of the Gypsies (later adapted as the film Mahana) won the Montana Book of the Year award. Witi’s other novels and short story collections include The Whale Rider, (also adapted as an internationally successful film); The Dream Swimmer (sequel to the award-winning The Matriarch); Pounamu, Pounamu and Nights In The Gardens of Spain. He has published two volumes of memoir: Maori Boy (2015) and Native Son (2019). He has also written acclaimed plays and opera libretti. In 2024, determined to reclaim the language of his tūpuna, Witi enrolled in the full-time immersion language course Rumaki Reo, at Te Wānanga Takiura o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori o Aotearoa.  

Adam Dudding

Adam co-founded Te Pūrongo Productions after hosting, producing, or editing 17 award-winning podcasts for Stuff, including The Commune, Gone Fishing and True Story. He previously worked at the Sunday Star-Times and UK publications including the Guardian and the Independent. His memoir, My Father’s Island, won the 2017 Ockham Best First Book award. In 2024, he co-wrote Heaven’s Helpline for NZ Herald and produced Witi Underwater for RNZ.

Eugene Bingham (Pākehā, Ngāpuhi)

In a career of more than 30 years, Eugene has reported and produced news and current affairs across newspapers, television, digital and podcast platforms, winning multiple awards as one of Aotearoa’s most respected investigative journalists. Memorable stories include the Teina Pora miscarriage of justice case, investigative documentaries The Valley and Infinite Evil and Life + Limb. Recent credits include executive producer of Aotearoa Media Collective's Mata Reports, and he's a director of Te Pūrongo Productions, maker of the TMP-funded Witi Underwater podcast.​ He’s also a student at Te Wānanga o Aotearoa where this year he is studying Te Aupikitanga (Level 6) Te Reo Māori.

James Dansey (Ngāruahine, Te Arawa, Tūwharetoa, Pākehā)​: James is an experienced music editor (Ru-Paul's Drag Race Downunder, The Great Kiwi Bakeoff) feature film composer (Gary of the Pacific, Timeslow) musician (The Sneaks, Lawrence Arabia) and audio engineer. James was also the composer for the podcast Witi Underwater. He is obsessed with re-planting Te Reo Māori firmly back into his whānau, starting with himself and his tamāhine, Awhi!

Te Pūrongo Productions was founded by Adam Dudding and Eugene Bingham in 2024. The pair had worked together at Stuff where they co-produced and presented numerous award-winning podcasts including The Commune and True Story, as well as assisting with the production and writing of many others. After leaving Stuff, they set up Te Pūrongo as a production company to make enriching, beautiful and important stories. Witi Underwater, where they follow author Witi Ihimaera on his haerenga reo Māori, is the company’s first production, and work is already underway on more.