Transcript
LAWRENCE STEPHENS: We are disappointed that we've heard of so many breakouts in recent years it's a considerable problem because it looks as though there's a challenge either in the budgeting of corrective institutions or a lack of adequate training or there could be disciplinary issues. Whatever it is when you hear that 17 lives have been lost you then have to question the way in which it was responded to it as well.
KOROI HAWKINS: Yes, in past years also there have also been a few that have been shot that have escaped from prison, is that a policy that they just shoot to kill or are they trying to slow them down, what's the case, do you know?
LS: There have been times when people have misguidedly announced that they are prepared to shoot to kill. There's no instruction and there's no policy on that and anyone giving an instruction would need to be held accountable before the courts. Reality is if somebody needs to be apprehended you have to take every reasonable means to apprehend that person and no one has the right to shoot to kill and if that were to happen then one would be expecting to see a very serious reconsideration of what's been going on.
KH: I also recall there was quite a bit of money invested in improving the fencing around some of these prisons in recent years. Is Buimo one of those? That fence around it looks pretty new.
LS: I haven’t been to that prison and I don't know if it's one of them. What I do know though is it doesn't matter what you do about fences the main issue is how the people involved in looking after the institution are able to cope and that's where we tend to fall down.
KH: It's also quite an issue with PNG prisons across corrections, in terms of budgeting, overcrowding of prisons and various things is there something that even registers on the political landscape in the lead up to the election?
LS: I doubt it. It certainly is something that I've discussed with people within the corrective institutions service. They face this problem on daily basis. And yet they say that there is a shortfall in their budgeting and a lack of adequate focus on the needs of the people who are working for corrective services. It doesn't sound unlikely because that's the sort of area we tend not to put enough effort into and similarly with police we certainly don't appear to out enough input into that. When you mentioned earlier spending this money, that’s one of the issues again because sometimes it seems that the money is definitely spent on so-called improvements, but the improvement is difficult to actually see and perhaps doesn't exist.
KH: Yes, and the impact on communities. So many, 77 i think escaped, 57 still on the loose. Is it always a worry when they get out into communities or are they taken in by their families and meld back into the communities so to speak?
LS: That's difficult to judge. One would hope that the families realise that they need to turn these guys back over to the prison system, but it is a tough situation for anybody to be in having to make that call. The police commander for Morobe I know just made that claim that people should make sure they hand them back. It is important when you're doing that to make sure that it's done safely because there are elements that don't adhere to the law that's always a fear for people who have, for one reason or another, escaped from prison and are now trying to find a way to hand themselves in.
KH: Safely as you say - people who don't adhere to the law. That's actually people within law enforcement you're talking about.
LS: Unfortunately we have evidence and many accounts that people within the corrections institutions, within the police, and within the defence force don't necessarily abide by the laws that are there to guide us all.
KH: So as a prisoner who has escaped you'd probably be very reluctant to go and turn yourself back in?
LS: In my experience that is the case and in my experience people would prefer to go through a third party. Sometimes a pastor, sometimes a priest or a police officer they know rather than turn up at the gate and say "I'm back".
