Transcript
KATE SCHUETZE: What we found was that there are a range of issues which entrench impunity. I mean, some of these cases are coming to light and they're not being investigated or not being investigated with due diligence. So what we've seen in the YouTube video which emerged in relation to Iowane Benedito, who was beaten in 2012 - it took nearly two years until they opened up a proper investigation and started to charge officers involved in that incident. We've also got constitutional immunities which now say that government officers can't be held accountable, so people who might have been tortured as little as two years ago don't have access to justice in those cases. So we have seen this happen from time to time and one of the significant problems that we think is important to talk about around the ten year anniversary of the coup is, you know, the role of the military in civilian policing, and I think it's important on the ten year anniversary that we start to talk about what more can be done on these cases to move things forward in Fiji to ensure better accountability when it does arrive and to make sure that the security forces are actually complying with their own laws.
JAMIE TAHANA: In the case of Benidito, as you point out, it took two years for an investigation to start, there's many other cases where we're not sure there has been an investigation at all or it kind of disappears after a while. Why is that?
KS: I mean, so what we're seeing is that there's been a number of high profile cases in the last few years, and raising the profile of these cases in some instances has led to limited accountability for those cases. In Fiji, the systems and processes aren't set up well enough in law, policy and practices to stop these instances occuring. We have seen some positive signs and we've spoken to the government about this. They are talking about a first hour procedure for persons in custody, making sure they have access to lawyers and family members the moment that they're taken into custody, and what we're saying here is that there's much more that needs to be done, but when it does occur we also need transparency. You know, accountability for these cases unfortunately is the exception rather than the rule and what we want to see is that turned on its head.
JT: These are the cases we know about, though. The report suggests, and of course reports we've had suggest, there are many more going on where nothing happens at all.
KS: Yes I mean what we see around the world is that the number of people who feel comfortable reporting cases of torture and ill treatment, the ones that are willing to come forward are significantly lower than the cases that are out there. We are only referring to the high profile cases where they have felt comfortable making a complaint either to the court, through the justice system, to the police, or to the media. You know, the reality is that these cases are probably only the tip of the iceberg, so what we need to see is an improvement in the police complaints process so that people know how they can actually make a complaint. When those systems are lacking and not there people are less likely to feel comfortable reporting these matters to the police. You know, we've also seen in this case in Lautoka that a person who made a complaint against torture has been harassed and threatened in his home since he made that complaint and that kind of behaviour is very concerning and it's absolutely
JT: So does this suggest that there needs to be some kind of independent body that has some kind of power to investigate?
KS: Yeah, so essentially we don't take a view on what that mechanism should be but international law does define what are the characteristics of an independent investigation process. So in some states we see that there is a kind of misconduct commission, or there might be a police ombudsman. You know, Fiji does have a human rights institution so there is potential scope to establish an institution outside the police force reviewing these cases, or to build up the Fiji Anti-discrimination and Human Rights Commission and give them the powers to do those things.
JT: Recently, in the past year or so, we've seen both Frank Bainimarama and Sitiveni Qiliho (the police commissioner) both admit, to an extent, that there is a problem with both violence and torture, the human rights convention has been ratified and such. Is there any sign of action following these pledges?
KS: Yeah, I mean essentially, doing this report now was because we see an opportunity in this shift in government attitudes. You know, we have moved a long way from a couple of years ago with Bainimarama saying 'I stand by my men' to a few weeks ago at this torture convention saying 'look, there is a problem within our security forces of resorting to violence and we do need to change that.' We are providing a road map, essentially, for government to try and address some of these issues. If it is committed to addressing torture and ill treatment they will take on board some of our recommendations and we always remain willing and open to engage with them and discuss how they can meet those international standards.